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Open Thread Thursday | 8/12/10
Okay loyal readers, here is your chance to get the discussion going. Let us know what is on your mind. Today is a great day for the Pine
51 Responses to “Open Thread Thursday | 8/12/10”
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Was a 7-game suspension for Johnny Cueto enough, considering he essentially kicked Jason LaRue in the head with metal cleats, while Ramon Hernandez had him (LaRue) in a headlock?
Don’t think so … Cueto’s act of cowardice and stupidity is almost right up there with Juan Marichal’s clubbing of Johnny Roseboro with a bat back in the day … well, back in Pete’s day (’65). Marichal was suspended for 9 days and fined … are you ready for this … a whopping $1,750! Of course, that’s when milk was a dime a gallon. Well-documented and some great photos if you use these two links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Marichal#Johnny_Roseboro_incident
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=johnny+roseboro+photos&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=
We likely have seen Chipper Jones’ very last game Tuesday night. He is out for the season after injuring his knee on a GREAT make the stab to your right, jump and throw play to nail an Astros batter at first. Several weeks ago, he spoke of this being his last season. Seemingly one of the few remaining old school players, he’s been a rock for the Braves at 3B his entire 17+ year career. His numbers AND the eye test strongly suggest Hall of Fame admission:
BA .306, OBP .405, HR 436, RBI 1,491. Six time All-Star, one WS ring, 3 NL pennants, 1 MVP. Broadly considered the 3rd best switch-hitter of all-time behind Eddie Murray and Mickey Mantle.
The only thing missing are Gold Gloves … i couldn’t find any.
Thoughts from The Bench?
Chipper Jones is a definite Hall of Famer. He didn’t quite make Mount Otsego, but he got some serious consideration in that discussion. We know the Hall of Fame voters take that into account.
They were talking about Chipper on the Mets broadcast today. He was talking about retirement, but he still has I think about 30 million owed to him, so things may get a bit ugly there.
K-Rod was shuttled off to his arraignment, and my guess is he won’t be in a Mets uniform for too much longer.
Good trivia question on the broadcast today as well – Who are the only two players to play in 3 consecutive world series for 3 different teams?
Cueto should be suspended for the season. Jose Offerman, no relation, got charged for criminal assault when he attacked a pitcher with a bat. I’m not saying that they are the same, but I am saying that Cueto is using a weapon that can mess someone up big time. I don’t think it’s criminal for Cueto to have done it, but I do believe that the commissioners office needs to protect the players from these types of attacks.
Chipper Jones dominated a generation of third basemen, he should be in the hall. But I’m biased.
I don’t why but I feel like Reggie Sanders should be 1 of them.
Kevin Brown?
Bill –
That’s a pretty tough trivia question … I don’t have any specific answers, but I’ll bet that one of the two is a solid middle relief pitchers, probably left-handed, who annually switches teams every season 3/4 of the way through to go to a contender when rosters get expanded. It’s one of those guys that gets brought in to face one hitter … a lefty … in a key situation. Guys like Damaso Martee.
Ouch ! Bosox just coughed up a 3 run lead in the 9th to lose. Sorry, guys.
What I’m REALLY curious about … will the ChiSox hold serve tonight and take this series from the Twinkees??? Three more next week in Minnie.
It was a tough question, and I was clueless. The correct answer is Don Baylor & Eric Hinske.
Crap. I needed more time. Of course, I was going to suggest Alan Embree, so I wasn’t going in the right direction.
I thought Sanders was a correct answer for sure.
Geez Bill, you gave us all of an hour to answer that question.
I was going to guess Hinske, although I wasn’t 100% sure, I swear.
Reggie Sanders was a good guess:
2001 – Arizona
2002 – San Francisco
2004 – St. Louis
Unfortunately, he played for Pittsburgh in 2003. Didn’t have much of a chance there.
So, I was reading Casey’s book, and there was mention of a particular NYCBL player that made me say to myself, “I bet that’s the guy who comments on Pickin’ Splinters.” A prior comment in this thread confirmed I was right.
Sorry Chas, running on no sleep today, and not everything is working, like my brain. Next time I’ll keep you in suspense, I swear.
Chas – yes, Gino is the “particular NYCBL player’ who frequents the Pine. Parts of chapter 9 are some of my favorite in the book.
Chas,
Well I guess you found the Clark Kent to my superman.
Casey,
Can I ask what parts? I mean there’s a lot of information there.
Is anyone else becoming a fan of Bubba Watson??? Maybe it is just me, as being a lefty – I am partial to any lefty golfers. But Bubba is playing some great golf and is quickly becoming one of the more likable players on the PGA Tour
During the opening round of the PGA Championship, he had a 400+ yard drive – ,that is ridiculous. I have swung out of my shoes, looking like something out of a Bugs Bunny cartoon and can maybe hit it 310-320.. To add another 100 + yards is mind boggling..
Where Tiger Woods has been a distraction for the PGA, Bubba Watson has been a refreshing addition to the tour. I know who I am rooting for this weekend.
Smitty – I saw Watson’s emotional press conference. I’ll admit that I had no idea who he was until that. Heard he was a big hitter and has never had a lesson. I think I’ll be watching this weekend as long as he is in contention.
Why couldn’t have the NBA waited one more year to induct the “Dream Team” into the Hall of Fame? As if Scottie Pippen and Karl Malone already aren’t saddled with another NBA great anytime their names are mentioned, they can’t even get inducted without having their own spotlight??? Geez!
Did you happen to catch Doug Gottlieb filling in yesterday for Cowherd. He made a pretty good case why Pippen should NOT be in the 50 all-time greatest players in the NBA. I have always questioned the attention Pippen gets. Rodman deserves it before him.
Whoa there, Casey! Seriously?? I didn’t hear the Gottlieb piece … what argument did he make? What argument are YOU making??
I’ll just say this … Other than MJ, Pippen was the only player who played on all 6 Bulls title teams. He was a GREAT all-round player. Was he MJ’s sidekick? Absolutely. I watched the whole thing close up for 8-9 years. Could the Bulls have won a few titles without him? Possibly, but maybe not … Pippen was THAT important. The way those guys played off of eachother is one of the main reasons the Bulls had a dynasty. Michael and Scottie were the two best defenders in the NBA for most of those years. One testament to Scottie’s skills is that the Bulls came within a whisker of going to the Eastern Finals when MJ was away trying to hit curveballs.
Just like Magic needed Worthy, just like Bird needed McHale, just like West needed Baylor, just like Cousy needed Russell …. MJ absolutely needed Pippen and they produced one of the all time greatest dynasties together. And unquestionably the most dominant single season team of all time … 72-10 and a blaze through the playoffs. This was no accident.
Reynell – couldn’t agree more.. At some point doesn’t Pippen say, “Geez .. I still can’t get out of Jordan’s shadow..”
It almost seems like the day Pippen does finally pass away – Jordan is not only going to do it the same day – Jordan is also going to be buried right next to him with a bigger headstone. Just to remind Pippen in the afterlife that he rode Jordan’s coat tails.
Reynell – I knew about Bubba Watson, I knew his father was recently diagnosed with throat cancer. What I didn’t know was that he was also dealing with a misdiagnosis of cancer for his wife as well.
The media has really put a spotlight on Mickelson with all of his family’s recent medical problems. How have we not heard about this? This guy has certainly handled himself with the same class and even recently won his first PGA event. Class act all the way around.
Don’t get me wrong. I think Pippen was a REALLY good player. The type of guy you need to win 72 games in a season and a championship. I would choose him over him over a whole lot of other players. But when it comes down to 50 greatest? Rey – you mentioned he finished top 5 in MVP voting while Jordan was gone. That’s kinda my point. That was his time to shine, and he finished top five…actually top seven. Does that put him among the greatest of all time. I admired his defensive effort, but I am not always sold on steals as a barometer for defensive abilities. Frequently, the guy who gets a steal on one possession is getting left behind on a back door cut the next possession – a la Kobe. Don’t forget – he chose to sit out when he wasn’t going to get the final shot. Don’t forget, Jackson and MJ had to use some fairly elaborate psychology methods to get Pippen to buy into what they were doing. Not to mention what he did AFTER the Bulls. Yes, he was 33, but others at that age have done better.
Just color me skeptical based on what he did with the chances to prove himself. I know that is probably being unfair and definitely an unpopular view.
Again, Pippen was a REALLY good player.
Holy crap! You know what I just realized? Christian Laettner is an NBA Hall of Famer!
And actually, Reggie Miller was the best player on a team that went to the finals. I might give a nod to him because of the way his shooting could impact a game.
Hahahaha
HELMET STICKER!!!!!!!!!!!
Steals aside, then – he is still one of the best defenders to ever play the game.
Can we compare him to Kobe? It took Kobe a number of years to get some kind of team together that worked for him after Shaq left. Did Pippen have time? That was MJ’s team; they were all used to playing off of him. If MJ never came back, do you think Pippen and the Bulls would have made it to the Finals in the late 90s? I think after a couple of strategic trades, whatever – they would have.
Agreed. One of the best.
Whoa! EPL opened this weekend? Is that early? Or is it that the World Cup finished up not too long long ago that makes it seem early.
Did you see the Pippen’s, Bird’s and Barkley’s comments on LeBron? The overall consensus was they didn’t criticize the decision to leave Cleveland – it was how he did it.. They even called it classless.
It will be interesting to see how and if LeBron will respond to them.
EPL is right on schedule I think. Scottish league usually starts first weekend in August and then EPL starts the following weekend.
My take on LeBron’s whole thing is for the way he did it. I really don’t mind him leaving (although he would have become immortal in sports world if he stayed and won there). Why is Wade off the hook for all of this? Because he got those guys to come there? I don’t know, I don’t get it.
I’m not letting Wade off the hook, but Lebron is a big boy. He can make his own decisions. I’m also thinking Wade didn’t contact the reality show.
Wait, wait, wait! Not true. I believe Wade and Bosh both had cameras following them at all times and there is supposed to be a documentary on all of this. Swear I heard this and they showed the cameras.
Are you serious?
Yes. I swear I heard about this on ESPN. Certainly ESPN is trustworthy. They’ve correctly reported Brett Favre’s retirement 17% of the time.
Hahaha
A bit late with this…but Laettner an NBA Hall of Famer! Shame, shame, shame. However, I am a bit biased (against him). In the Spring following Duke’s second consecutive championship my family visited the Duke campus. Thanks to Marty Clark’s (6th man) girlfriend, we got some good leads on how to catch many of the players. We got to watch Hurley and Brian Davis play pick-up, and got autographs from them and Hill and Lang (some other time I will tell how Lang ruined me, much to the delight of my family). We then struck up a conversation with Laettner’s girlfriend as she waited for him to go to Winston-Salem for some NBA prep pick-up game. He didn’t come for ages (I believe he knew we were there). Finally she went in and practically dragged him out. He signed 1 autograph (all other players did 1 for each of our 3 kids). I was always glad to see that he never amounted to much in the NBA (or so I thought). Did he buy his way into the HOF?
Pete & Smitty –
No comments on Scottie Pippen? Casey seems to think he was just “REALLY good”. I’m thinkin’ that the second most important player on a 6-time champion easily passed the hurdle of “Great” and warrants a Top 50 classification. I think Rey is with me on this one.
All I know is this … If Pippen isn’t Top 50, then you can easily take a dozen others with him and throw them off the list, too. Many of them are Celtics and Lakers who joined 3-4 other teammates on the list mostly because their teams were “dynasties” or at least multiple title winners. Parrish, McHale, Worthy … I’m just gettin’ started.
Okay, I was trying to avoid this conversation, but here it goes. Honestly, I am on the fence. Here is why.. I think we have seen and can agree that you need at least 2 stars on a NBA team.. quite possibly 3 in order to win a championship. Kobe won with Shaq and didn’t start winning again until the Lakers stole…. err were given an early Christmas present… err traded for Pau Gasol.
Paul Pierce wasn’t sniffing an NBA championship until the C’s traded for Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen..
That being said, Jordan wasn’t winning any of his championships without Scottie Pippen. Pippen was that good and as Reynell said – was one of the best defenders to play the game.
However the few years of Pippen without Jordan were conflicting. He was one of the better players in the league (evidence by being in the Top 5 in MVP voting), but was also the guy who wouldn’t take the floor because a last second shot wasn’t drawn up for him to take. If you are to be included in the Top 50 NBA list – there shouldn’t be stories about your coaches using motivational tricks to get you on the floor.
But that is where I am conflicted.. When on the floor – Pippen is one of the best.
I think he is in.
Smitty –
One attitudinal hiccup in a 16 year career is certainly not a major blemish by modern standards. I’m not condoning what Pippen did at the end of that one game, but holding that against him in terms of Top 50 career status is pretty weak.
By the way, Casey, Pippen had pretty severe back issues in the last third of his career. He could barely touch his toes. I think he hung on too long because he got some questionable contract advice in signing one of those Bulls deals and didn’t make the HUGE $ a lot of lesser players ended up getting.
Ok, Smitty. You’re going to have to explain this “bunker” mishap at the PGA yesterday. I don’t get it. He shot out of it, then was penalized? What’s the rule?
Reynell..The rule is that when you are in a bunker you can’t ground you club before you swing. In other words, the club can’t touch the ground until the swing. The USGA feels that an advantage is gained by grounding although not sure what advantage is gained because you still have to get it out of there. Unfortunately for Johnson there were notices posted everywhere about the rule because of the 1200+ bunkers on the course. At first I thought it was a BS ruling. But when Johnson admitted he hadn’t read the ruling. Well my opinion changed. I hope that helps..
I got it. I didn’t know what “grounding” meant. Yeah – he’s admitting to not really paying attention to that rule so I feel no pity for him.
Yeah well it’s not like he didn’t have plenty of opportunities to ground in a bunker. Geez, that course had more bunkers than 390 has potholes after a long winter.
I love bunkers. One of the morning shows this weekend had a segment on Rob Reiner, and my wife didn’t know that his first role was as Mike Stivic on All in the Family. Gotta tell you…I love me some Archie and Edith. Those were the days.
Calling Christian Laettner a Basketball Hall of Famer is like referring to Dallas Taylor and Greg Reeves as Rock and Roll Hall of Famers.
Meathead.
Stifle!
Dingbat!